Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

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Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:12 pm

yes, so unwilling to listen to debate, I was banned by one of the mods on the LGC, one that is just as combative as me. Now while we may be critical and on occasion outright hostile, we're not going to ban somebody for not toeing the party line. Actually this is a good point to discuss what would constitute a banning. Progurt?
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:18 pm

Well, if we did it just for disagreement, we'd be as bad as the authoritarian over-moderators anywhere else. Probably direct and repeated verbal abuse, where no viewpoints are being discussed, argued, or defended, and it's just hostile people screaming without providing any basis for their statements, that would be grounds for a banning.

I think a lot of people who are over here are here because of selective enforcement of moderation policies at the other forum, by specific moderators. "I'm tired of hearing it" isn't a good enough reason to ban anyone. Or to lock a thread. Or to reprimand somebody. If you punish someone for making a good point that you don't want to hear, or asking questions you don't want to answer, in a civil manner, then there's got to be something wrong with your own ideology that you just don't want to face, for whatever reasons.


Last edited by Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:20 pm

agreed. That's what made me leave revleft, that's why they banned me from the LGC. We're better than that, if combative about it.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Fukshot on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:21 pm

inquisitor asked that I pass along that it was he who swung the ban hammer.

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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:23 pm

I'm sure he's overjoyed he's got an excuse now to quiet up anybody saying anything he doesn't like.

Amusing how we're mirroring in microcosm the political history between socialists and liberals. Valuable and illustrating lesson on what happens when you trust authoritarians and capitalists.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:24 pm

Fukshot wrote:inquisitor asked that I pass along that it was he who swung the ban hammer.
Oh okay. Wow, that really doesn't surprise me then.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:28 pm

For months now there are a number of people who have been putting out this blind unquestioning hagiography of Obama at the LGC, and they're not interested in anything that disagrees with it. I stopped posting there because I was tired of dealing with cultists. Looks like Inquisitor in particular has made sure Gendo doesn't have a choice.

Personally, I was wondering if it would be him or G&G (who has apparently decided that the only grounds on which someone can be opposed to Obama are racial).
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:32 pm

Progurt wrote:For months now there are a number of people who have been putting out this blind unquestioning hagiography of Obama at the LGC, and they're not interested in anything that disagrees with it. I stopped posting there because I was tired of dealing with cultists. Looks like Inquisitor in particular has made sure Gendo doesn't have a choice.

Personally, I was wondering if it would be him or G&G (who has apparently decided that the only grounds on which someone can be opposed to Obama are racial).
Inquisitor has had problems with me voicing my opinion since the start. He's the main reason I suggested we start our own board in the first place. Still they are all welcome to come over here and discuss what they want to.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  comedian on Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 pm

Hmmm... I never had problems with inquisitor, but if he banned gendo just because he was tired of what gendo was saying... well, that is dissapointing.
Frankly some people over there should not have been made moderators. They don't get what the role is.
But keep in mind if Inquisitor and others want to come over and discuss things keep in mind they will do it as members and not moderators.
Now, reasons for getting banned- progurt covered most of it but here are some of my criteria:
1) threats
2) personal insults ( I would let accusations of racism, sexism, other- isms fly if they are used in a proper context, but not if you just yell " RACIST!" without backing up the charge).
3) cyberbullying ( fucking up a person's threads constantly- like spamming, flaming, etc. ).
4) Spouting anti- socialist rhetoric. This is a socialist forum and you have zero rights when it comes to spewing reactionary and pro- capitalist bullshit. There are plenty of right- wing internet sewers where you can do that.

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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:22 pm

I'm not sure I agree with 4, if you want to come in and try to spout that shit be prepared to be mentally destroyed. If we can't defend our own positions, we should re evaluate them. now if they devolve into insults or outright bullying, that's a different matter.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Fukshot on Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:34 pm

comedian wrote:
Frankly some people over there should not have been made moderators.


If you're counting me in that, I'd be glad to hear ways I might do a better job of it.

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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:00 pm

gendoikari87 wrote:yes, so unwilling to listen to debate, I was banned by one of the mods on the LGC, one that is just as combative as me. Now while we may be critical and on occasion outright hostile, we're not going to ban somebody for not toeing the party line. Actually this is a good point to discuss what would constitute a banning. Progurt?
Incidentally, for anyone wondering what horrible and egregious breach of decorum and decency led to this, we've got another fawning hagiography from irishman over how awesome Obama is, posting something very similar to other posts of his, where he goes on and on about how awesome Obama is and how we all need to suck it up and support him:
Please consider,

Okay, I know from some of the posts a few of you are not in favor of supporting President Obama, that is your call ! All I ask is we all consider the consequences if the Mitt gets in and the house and senate is controlled by the teaparty.

The Obama administration has not been perfect by any means, we all know that ! But it is a far site better than what we had and what we will get if the right take control again.

We are not children and we can not get our way on ever issue. We all know how politics are played and it will always be that way.

With the freedom of the poor and middle class riding on this election PLEASE consider the consequences we all face. Our president has been a good leader in most cases and has got a lot done, even with his hands tied by the house of right wing red necks.

So please consider this ! Obama he is our last chance..... thanks Irish OH YEA FECK BECK.................................................
If that post looks familiar, it's because it is word for word the content of his Please Help! post from a month ago:
Okay, I know from some of the posts a few of you are not in favor of supporting President Obama, that is your call ! All I ask is we all consider the consequences if the Mitt gets in and the house and senate is controlled by the teaparty.

The Obama administration has not been perfect by any means, we all know that ! But it is a far site better than what we had and what we will get if the right take control again.

We are not children and we can not get our way on ever issue. We all know how politics are played and it will always be that way.

With the freedom of the poor and middle class riding on this election PLEASE consider the consequences we all face. Our president has been a good leader in most cases and has got a lot done, even with his hands tied by the house of right wing red necks.

So please consider this ! Obama he is our last chance..... thanks Irish OH YEA FECK BECK.................................................
Now, I'm sure irishman is someone who otherwise is a decent person, but you don't have to read too many of his recent posts regarding Obama to see that he's put his mind completely out to lunch about whether or not anyone should support Obama. It's a glowing account of the life and times of our boy-king Savior Messiah on all counts. The poor guy is completely caught up in Team Spirit.

So gendo says to him simply "Explain how".

G&G compares Gendo to Joe McCarthy, thread's locked by Inquisitor, who says "We've been down this road". And instead of any kind of sanction on the person who built that road, twice, just obvious copy and paste, instead Gendo's banned by Inquisitor. So apparently the only thing, the one and only position that the moderation staff at the LGC wants to see, is glowing endorsements of how awesome Obama is, and if there are moderators who disagree with that, if there is a site owner who disagrees with that, they better speak up now because they're losing any control over the situation they might have had. An echo chamber has been established, and is being maintained as strictly as possible.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  comedian on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:17 pm

Fukshot wrote:
comedian wrote:
Frankly some people over there should not have been made moderators.


If you're counting me in that, I'd be glad to hear ways I might do a better job of it.

No, I was thinking of someone else.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:48 pm

No fukshot u and gg do a good job I think they meant inquisitor and paladin specifically
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Fukshot on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:56 pm

I'm reading, but I'm obviously not going to discuss moderation policy on a forum where I am a moderator.

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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:38 pm

It bothers me that a user who supports Obama can post something specifically targeted at users who don't support Obama, with the intention of convincing them and cajoling them to his way of thinking, twice, and when the people who don't support Obama respond to this post that is aimed at them, they're met with insults, derision, and a banning.

That's not at all right with me. What it looks like is that someone is allowed to disagree with the dominant ideology of the website, they're just not allowed to say it.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  7N6Wolf on Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Progurt wrote:For months now there are a number of people who have been putting out this blind unquestioning hagiography of Obama at the LGC, and they're not interested in anything that disagrees with it. I stopped posting there because I was tired of dealing with cultists. Looks like Inquisitor in particular has made sure Gendo doesn't have a choice.

Personally, I was wondering if it would be him or G&G (who has apparently decided that the only grounds on which someone can be opposed to Obama are racial).

This purge is a disgusting turn indeed, but it is not surprising, given that a fair deal of the rebuttals directed against Gendo often bordered on trolling at best. Admittedly, I was expecting this at some point in time, but I guess my long absence from the LGC boards made me unable to keep track of the "pulse" of events.

Liberalism is nothing more than conservatism with a "human face," so this does not surprise me at all. I was expecting an eventual purge when critics of Obama got more outspoken and greater in numbers, and I guess this point has finally been reached (again, I was on a long hiatus, so I was unable to see the process unfold in its entirety). Similarly, the Saiga 12 forums instituted a purge of socialists when they started becoming more numerous and openly opposed the dominant right-wing ideologies being spouted by many members of that forum.

These events will only help us remember that Obama is just as bad as G.W. Bush.

Oh, by the way gendo, two types of people dominate revleft: 1. Malcontented 12-15 year-olds who think it is cool to call themselves "revolutionary leftists" and scare their parents. 2. Lazy stoners (no, I am not saying that everyone who uses drugs is like this) who think they are dealing debilitating blows against capitalism by venting their spleens on the internet for four to eight hours per day. Wink
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:05 pm

I use marijuana occasionally and understand the difference between me and a lazy stoner. It's like the difference between somebody who goes to the bar every now and then and a habitual blackout alcoholic.

Awesome avatar btw.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:58 pm

7n6 your avatar is 20% cooler than any other avatar
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Inquisitor on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:30 pm

Happy to discuss it, on the phone, with comedian.

I imagine he knows how to find me. It's not hard. It had nothing to do with silencing dissent. But martyr yourself all you want.

Comedian, you know how to find me.

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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  gendoikari87 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:56 pm

Inquisitor wrote:Happy to discuss it, on the phone, with comedian.

I imagine he knows how to find me. It's not hard. It had nothing to do with silencing dissent. But martyr yourself all you want.

Comedian, you know how to find me.
Then what? I attacked no one even though I am constantly attacked . Disagree passionately maybe but I attacked no one. If that is what you truly think I suggest you reflect on your own bias because it is extremely evident to me

The truth is I have done nothing on that board that hasn't been done by others, fukshot included. Irishman in particular posts as much as I do but he's on your side so that's fine. Gg claims I'm racist bit that's fine because she supports your position . There much mOre but I'll stop there . You did it to stop hearing a viewpoint you don't agree with , at least admit that
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Inquisitor on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:34 pm

I have 2 years of private messages with you to the contrary. You should have them as well. Start cutting and pasting. Prove I am out to get you. Verbatim. Do it. I have nothing to hide, these folks already think I am a jackass. Banning you is hardly a purge.

Progurt has some as well. I seem to have deleted those exchanges, so perhaps he can show some truthiness. Let's see the real "forum nazi" with all my warts.

You (gendo) are not a martyr. But maybe you can sell your friends that you are for a while.

Enjoy your new home. Good luck.

This forum is important. You guys should flourish. We can't service a real socialist need for some reason at the LGC. Partly because the dem base, certainly. It's good stuff.

Comedian, you have my number. Use it or not, since we have some face to face time, it might be useful. Or not. Or call mark. I imagine he'll have an opinion.

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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  Progurt on Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:02 am

You may have plenty of private messages, what I see publicly is some atrociously imbalanced moderation where people who agree with you get to say what they want, no matter how hostile or offensive, and people who disagree with you get jumped on.

Here's the entirety of my PM's from you:
Message subject: Re: That gendo thread
From: Inquisitor
Sent: Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:48 am
To: Progurt
Message

I personally have warned him about that sig.
Ooooo. BFD.

You (gendo) are not a martyr. But maybe you can sell your friends that you are for a while.
Yeah, you say that, but all I've seen at the LGC for the entire time I've posted there has been you, whitey, wleswii, and others, treating gendo like king fucking douchebags. I've seen you and others slap gendo down for responding civilly to people who are attacking him, and never a word for the attackers. Maybe in your fantasies you've been even handed and fair, but "warning" somebody when the standard by which you're warning them is imbalanced to begin with is no warning at all. I've got a strongly developed sense of justice and balance, and seeing injustice and imbalance pisses me off, and what amazes me is that gendo gave you toolbags as many chances as he did, because he genuinely gives a shit and hasn't (or hadn't) written off the lot of your rude and condescending false sense of superiority spoiled high school clique as irrecoverable fuckheads. I did, and I'm a lot happier for it.
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  lemur_ on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:09 am

G&G engaged in a personal attack on Gendo instead of moderating! You know, moderating like a moderator ought to do! Inquisitor defended her to me under the rationale that she was not acting as a moderator, but that does not matter one bit because the rules are that we don't engage in personal attack in the LGC forums. Ah, but she's part of the "Club of Inerrant Moderators" so she's untouchable. The rules don't apply if you happen to have the right buddies, I guess.

Moderating on LGC stinks to high heavens. Shit, bumDharma has repeatedly attacked members of the forum with impunity! He eventually left in disgust, rather than being very publicly booted out. I've been on the internet since the early 90. I've never seen such poor moderation and I've been on forums where moderating was much more challenging than LGC due to volume, nastiness, trolliness, etc.

And it is all the more aggravating because LGC is pretending to be better than right wing forums. Wow! The delusion!

(Rolandson, if you read this, I've found your moderating to be reasonable. Unfortunately, you are the exception.)


Last edited by lemur_ on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : punctuation)
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Re: Silencing Dissent: The LGC purge

Post  rolandson on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:23 am

Ya know, I am an adult...and this is the internet...but for reasons related to all of the stuff in this thread I have been feeling like shit all day. I feel like I have failed, mostly because I have.

Here's the thing; the socialists, on this forum and others, of which I consider myself more aligned with than not, are not the enemy. We are not the enemy. I don't know when this all became a contest about who was the most (loyal, left, pure) liberal but it's resulted in what is looking more and more to be a race to the bottom.

We don't have to agree on anything, we just don't need to rip each other apart while not agreeing on anything. I can picture lurkers from the right in ecstasy while reading through this and I can't imagine how that advances us...any of us.

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